3-3-24 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on X
Criticism of coaching in sports is often the go to of the uniformed. Stick with me, I’m not calling anyone dumb, just saying when there are actual coaching deficiencies or failures, we often don’t recognize them while they’re masked by talented players. Vice versa happens too, so when we discuss coaching it’s important to tackle it from a lot of different angles.
You have to factor in how the players feel, and those of us who are just reading quotes have no choice but to assume the Pirates coaching is incredible. Until you think to yourself a bit that no player is going to directly crap on a coach to the media on the record.
Some of us have of course been lucky enough to talk to a player here and there, and I don’t mean self important bloggers, I mean as simple as a signing or meet and greet. Rarely in that opportunity do you want to ask them about the coaching, but if you did, unless they quite literally have become your drinking buddy, most guys won’t say anything that leads you to negatively think of their coaches.
We also have minor league players, including those who have had the opportunity to get the call. They’ll talk more frequently, and you can learn some things there, but you always have to keep in mind, if they’re freely talking to you, they might just be mad they got sent back down too. Have to at least leave that a little in the back of your mind anyway.
Ex players always have colorful things to say about the coaching philosophies where they used to play. Guess what, if they won there, they tend to be pretty positive, if they didn’t win there, they were always doing something whacky. On a podcast or show, 8 years after being there, I tend to just take them as colorful storytelling, harmless, fun. Just here last year or a couple ago and ok, maybe I listen up a bit. Hear them out, especially if the comments come unprompted or to their new local media. There’s no agenda there, and man that’s really valuable.
Point of all that is, we now have watched 3 and a half seasons of Derek Shelton, Don Kelly, Oscar Marin, and a little less of Andy Haines. We have stats their teams have produced and all the bits of weighted evidence gathered from all those different methods we discussed up there.
Paramount of importance, they now have talent to work with.
Meaning, I’m not going to expect Oscar Marin to turn this into a top 10 rotation this year, he just hasn’t been given that level of talent. Andy Haines, I think based on the potential he has to work with, he has to achieve something this year. Top 15 in homeruns? Top 15 in OPS? Something.
I guess there’s one more piece to this evaluation puzzle we have to factor in, and that’s the analytics department. We don’t have a name we can scream about, and the data is the data, but the application of that data to any decision we can talk to and criticize.
So here’s where I am on all 4 right now, based on all that stuff as a baseline plus what we need to see next.
Don Kelly
There isn’t much to say here from a fan perspective. Seems like a nice guy, players like him. Derek Shelton mentions his work in Spring Training scheduling everything, and that’s no small job. There were rumors that he had teams interested in him from the first season with the Pirates, and less so as he’s been here.
Part of that is the inevitability of smelling like the company you keep and those were some damn bad teams, intentional or not.
If the team wins, I think his name will start resurfacing in coaching searches, but for now, it feels like he’s here as long as he wants to be or at least as long as Derek Shelton.
What’s Next? I’d like to see the Pirates find more visible roles for Don, last year they handed him a starring role in the defensive coaching but we never heard much from it.
Oscar Marin
His touted specialty was his ability to meld analytics with biometrics, and he’s really had little to work with prior to last year. Some of his methods have caused players to take a step back, others have excelled, especially in the bullpen. Mitch Keller is a win for him as a pitching coach, but if it takes 3 or 4 full seasons to finally help a guy, it’s still better than not helping, but not sustainable.
Let’s say it Anthony Solometo debuts in September for one of their one game thank you type promotions. Then think about this team, where it is right now, and where you’ll rightly expect it to be next year. Solometo can’t still be struggling to stick come 2026 feel me? Different guys have different paths, but here’s why I worry. Roansy Contreras made adjustments last year, adjustments that honestly have merit. The league stopped chasing his off speed stuff, because he stopped hitting the zone with it. His fastball escaped him. He was met with hitters not swinging at stuff they always had, trying to make adjustments to improve his extension to get a better perception on his heater. It might have worked too if he hadn’t lost velocity because of those adjustments.
Point being, even if he’s back this year, and there sure do seem to be signs of at least the velocity and perception improving. Breaking stuff still moves, and he still doesn’t know where it goes as much as you’d like, but he can be an effective pitcher. Even so, they lost a year with him, we’re now on year 3 of his MLB development.
What’s Next? For Oscar to stay I think we need to see two things. One, we have to see the journey for youngsters more about baby steps and less about sweeping changes, it’s causing ineffectiveness and making the process impossible to entertain while trying to win at the same time. Second, Oscar either needs to ask for help, or the team needs to step in and force it. His role is too vast to expect him to individually help players on a performance to performance basis. These guys need someone to talk to, who gets what it is he does, even just an alternative voice who can jump in a guy’s ear and help. I believe enough talent will cross his path this year to say no results, could very well spell a change here.
Andy Haines
I won’t ignore he had less than stellar hitters, but his overall philosophy hasn’t worked. The team has been historically poor on offense. This year the talent level will make it overwhelmingly obvious should he not change something. I’d have moved on from him before last season started, so it shouldn’t shock you I’m not a fan now.
I want to be fair, but if I’m honest, I think he has a type as it comes to a hitter, and by that, he can help one type of hitter, or turn someone into a poor facsimile of his vision who doesn’t have the skill set to be way he wants them to be.
What’s Next? Much like Marin, he is in charge of the hitting plan for the entire system and it’s too much. There is nothing wrong with guys who look outside the system, the team even encourages it on occasion. They must get someone, in addition to Christian Marrero to talk to guys and work with them when they get into a funk. If this batch of talent can’t score runs or they continue to value walks over run scoring contact I can’t see the team valuing Haines more than their investments. Big year for this offense or I see them making a change.
Derek Shelton
Lineups and when to change pitchers, how much a guy is used, that stuff is always going to be the fodder surrounding an evaluation of a coach. They’re all real things to complain about, but they also don’t always come from him alone. Analytics, training staff, assistant coaches, even the GM when they want to get a look at a certain number of at bats by a certain guy, that stuff all comes together and makes one big Manager soup.
It’s for that reason, he’ll get more than this year to prove he has what it takes, they’d have him replace his assistants before they pulled the plug on someone who’s been a good soldier and done what was asked of him.
The only thing I can really judge him on is how hard his guys play for him and I truly believe they play hard and through the tape.
What’s Next? He’s paid his dues, played 4 straight poker games with one or two face cards the entire time and somehow these guys still want to play for him. That changes this year, he’s being given enough to potentially produce a winning record and while I think he’s safe regardless, he really better at least threaten it or I believe they’ll make staff changes and it would put him on last leg status too in my opinion. The pool of talent must be protected and admitting there isn’t enough is almost always a last resort. Systematically, should they not start to win, the team will blame and eliminate from the bottom up. Like it or don’t, Shelton gets more time.
Steel City Pirates 