Hump Day Pirates Q&A

10-4-23 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on Twitter

Quality questions equal fun answers to write. Thanks everyone let’s keep going with these all off season.

Question 1

Why do so many regional pundits and fans seem to refuse to give Conner Joe his big props for this season? A role player who put up 100 hits and a .760 OPS!! – Wilbert Matthews

Obviously I can’t speak for everyone, but if I were to guess, it’s because people in general, and pundits tend to hate being wrong and since he was lumped in with guys like Miguel Andujar as a 25th or 26th man type at best early on, that’s kinda made it hard to speak differently about him.

That said, I think it’s fair to say we learned he was a pretty good defender at enough positions to see him play a few games every week. Takes a professional at bat. Still has a bunch of team control, and cheap. Maybe a little more pop than expected. And all of that adds up to a major league player.

I think there are a couple other factors that surround a guy like Joe. First, a former top pick here in Pittsburgh, many had him long ago added to their draft pick bust mental hit lists. Second, He’s not a starter, and fans fear a guy like this seeing playing time that comes with being one. Lastly, someone will always be this guy. Every team has “that guy” and it changes as a season rolls along. If Conner Joe is “the worst player on this team” the TEAM is probably pretty friggin’ good.

Question 2

Is this the year the Pirates make a huge splash in the offseason?? – James Littleton

If I didn’t know you I’d probably ask you to define “huge”. That said, I think I know where you’re headed. The best way I can put it James is to compete for the playoffs is a great goal for this team to have, but it’s also and very specifically not ‘to win a World Series’. In other words, I don’t think it can be believed this club is 2 or 3 signings away from the top of the sport. To get there they’ll need growth internally, maybe even Skenes/Termarr types to get here too, and then maybe, the stated goal becomes my hypothetical quotation up there.

That said, I do believe they’ll be shopping in a different aisle for at least one ingredient this offseason and whether that comes from trade or free agency, it’ll be bigger than we’re used to. To me, if the “we just gotta keep getting better” Pirates can spend 8 mil on a pitcher with one foot in the fishing boat like Rich Hill, they can damn sure spend 15 for the next step up.

Big splash? I don’t know, but in a dessert jumping in a mud puddle might feel like a tidal wave.

Question 3

Have the Braves destroyed the myth of any value in drawing a lot of walks? – Mark Graham

The Braves lead the league in just about every offensive category that matters. Hits, OBP, OPS, Homers, you name it, with maybe the exception of walks. Middle of the pack there. All that said, since walks directly apply to OBP, which directly feeds OPS, well, Mark the best way I can put it is, I’ve not seen too many offenses like this.

So unless every team is going to have an .845 OPS as a season long unit, I’m not sure how they’ve destroyed anything. Drawing walks is fine, doing something with them is better.

Question 4

What is the main position that will be looked at? – Shawn Wheeler

It’s starting pitching all day. How could it not be? It’d be like riding around all Winter in Summer tread tires bouncing off guardrails every time it flurries then changing the windshield wipers.

It’s clear as day the pitching isn’t where the bats are, and that should be scary because the bats aren’t exactly advanced quite yet. The Pirates need to do a ton in this area.

They need to ensure Mitch Keller is here after they get this thing going by extending him. They need to help Oviedo enhance his offerings and harness his consistency. They must bring in a qualified at least middle of the rotation starter, and I don’t think there’s another single spot where I couldn’t at least be argued into accepting with internal solutions. Not happy about it, but reasonably could see what they’re thinking.

Hey, it’s baseball, it’s always about the pitching.

Question 5

How do you think the Pirates handle the glut of middle infielders this offseason? – David Wald

I wish I could say David, cause that would mean someone jumped up and took 2B with both hands. The first thing they really need to do is understand if they truly have a glut (meaning they’re so satisfied with the options as to be glutenous) or just a heap (meaning a pile up of similar prospects who’ve all seen fairly close opportunity to win more time).

I’d lean to the latter.

Doesn’t mean I feel none of the guys they have close like Gonzales, Peguero, Bae, Marcano, Triolo couldn’t grab hold tight come Spring, but I’m also not sure what they’ll see/discover in the months coming before Spring that would help them choose who’s who.

You can trade from this group, but when you go through all the trouble of acquiring and getting these guys to the doorstep, it’d be awfully poopy to pick the wrong one to keep or move.

That said, this group also offers diversity of position. Only two of them are truly tied to middle infield only and until Termarr pushes them it’s a fairly contained battlefield.

I honestly think the “glut” narrative, kinda didn’t turn out to be. I think it’s right on the doorstep to become that, but man, it’d be awfully early to give up on most of those guys and they haven’t done enough to warrant being a truly valuable trade piece.

I’m aware I haven’t really answered your question as much as deconstruct it, but bro, I just can’t say right now.

Question 6

Everyone knows that SP and 1B are the main offseason targets/needs. But what smaller scale additions (I’m thinking bullpen and bench, personally) could the Pirates potentially make that most fans aren’t thinking about? – Nick Camusso

I think the Pirates have managed to find 3 decent left handed bullpen options, but I’d love another. One along the lines of what Jarlin Garcia was supposed to be. Someone you could pop in 7-9 to stretch the back out and create favorable matchups. Hey, maybe they finally get my dude Bruce Suter! Stability is what I’m looking for there. Borucki, Perdomo, and Hernandez have all done well, but two of them have a long track record of not being good enough before 2023 and one is entering year 2, personally I’ll take my “glut” here please.

Question 7

Who’s all locked in for next year? – Kevin Ott

If I take your meaning, it’s who is not even in a competition for a spot on this roster.

Bednar, Holderman, Mlodzinski, Keller, Oviedo, Hayes, Cruz, Suwinski, Reynolds.

I’m being very discriminating here, but without question I find it hard to believe any of these 9 are anything but locks. A bunch of others have inside tracks of course, but I can’t award “Lock” to anyone else.

Question 8

Will we see Paul Skenes in the Pirate rotation in 2024? – Wilbert Matthews

Well, I’ll say this if he’s really good and can’t make it in 2024, it’ll be more about the Pirates having done too much this offseason and the team doing super well than holding him back. I’d also say, while he’s the Pirates top pitching prospect, that doesn’t necessarily make him their closest. This is a team that is going to have to invest here in the rotation, and that’s already going to stress the system a bit.

Guys like Priester, Jones, Solometo, Ashcraft, Sullivan, are all in this mix too. Keep in mind, prospect rankings are about predicting their MLB outcomes, not predicting their order for arrival.

I think Skenes is talented enough for sure, but I also think Jared Jones is super talented, and I think Quinn will improve over the offseason, and Ortiz isn’t dead either, Roansy has no options, so to even get a chance he has to make it.

If they do what they should do this offseason, it shouldn’t be a guarantee they have room for it unless he makes it insane not to, which is also very possible.

Pirates Enter The Off-Season

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-eb8zh-14c0375

Craig and Chris talk about Jon Nunnally being relieved of his duties in Altoona and Ben Cherington’s comments about Henry Davis continuing to be a catcher, before moving on to see how Ke’Bryan Hayes, Jack Suwinski and Mitch Keller performed this season; based on the metrics that the guys pointed out as being the most important, back in Spring. 

Brought to you by ShopYinzz.com! Craig Toth covers the Pirates for Inside The Bucs Basement, and joins his buddy Chris at a 9-foot homemade oak bar to talk Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball. Listen. Subscribe. Share. We are “For Fans, By Fans & All Pirates Talk.” THE Pirates Fan Podcast found EVERYWHERE podcasts can be found and always at BucsInTheBasement.com!

 

Five Pirates Thoughts at Five – 76-86 is a Significant Improvement, Time to Add

10-2-23 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on Twitter

That’s 14 more wins than they recorded in 2022 and in this game that doesn’t happen every year. Teams improve or fall back every year, but for a club that willingly fell to the depths of losing that they have to finally have the talent base built to the point it brought them to this level, it’s important, instructive and for a fan base that hasn’t been burned it probably means boundless optimism for 2024.

Pirates fans though, well, we might as well be in Missouri, cause every single one of us wants to be shown now.

1. A Nice Step, but the Path Didn’t Change

The thing is, there’s no way for a fake media type like me to reference past predictions without sounding like I’m begging for a pat on the back. It’s not about the correctness of some arbitrary number chosen correctly based on some napkin math and guesses, it’s about the entire trajectory since this started in 2020.

The Pirates aren’t where fans want them. Of course right? I’m sure the Pirates would like to have a better record too, but this has been a fairly logical progression.

In other words, being “right” isn’t important, but knowing the Pirates have followed a path that makes sense kinda is.

Nothing that has happened up until this point has required much of anything to make Bob Nutting even squirm a bit. The payroll hasn’t really risen, yet. Oh, he’s allowed for an extension here and there, but nothing too scary on an average annual value basis.

Point is, this offseason, the payroll will increase. Some players will be rewarded in arbitration, probably looking at another extension or two and yes, they’ll have to add payroll either in free agency or via trades but even given all of that, the payroll in 2024 probably won’t require Nutting to reach deeper into his pockets than he has in the past.

Part of the tearing down process is in fact designed to get to this point. A roster full of young players, the hope being they all have plenty of room to improve, even while knowing they won’t all do so. Most of them on entry level deals and scheduled to stay there for a couple seasons. This means the Pirates can spend money they normally wouldn’t feel capable of on the market, and yes, until you see it of course you have every right to not trust it’ll happen.

As the offseason progresses, we’ll of course talk about what is needed (as though you can’t see for yourself) and ways that they can get it.

This team finished 8 wins out of the playoff field with 2/5 of a starting rotation and no Oneil Cruz. You take that however you like, I’ll take it as encouraging. I’ll full throated say right now, playoffs have to be the target in 2024, and for once the team says the same thing.

2. Steps Backward

There have been injuries and unexpected things all year, but I’m talking promising players who took big steps back in 2023.

Luis Ortiz – Looked great in his cameo back in 2022 and then showed up in 2023 in less than optimal shape and seemingly less fastball command then when he was considered a raw talent. Toward the end of the season, Luis took some positive steps toward figuring things out, at least to the point where he can be considered capable of helping in 2024 in some tangible way.

Roansy Contreras – If it worked, it stopped working in 2023. Big velocity, gone. Untouchable curveball, rendered useless without the velocity. More than anything, not the player, not the team, not the outside help they looked for, nobody knows what the hell happened to him. The timing couldn’t have been worse, he has no options remaining, meaning he has to make the 26-man out of camp next year or be placed on waivers in an attempt to hold onto him in the system. Because of how poorly the season went, he now simply can’t be counted on in 2024. He either comes back looking like the 2022 pitcher we all fell in love with and projected to be a top rotation piece, or he’s a footnote in Pirates history.

They aren’t the only players who had poor seasons, but they are the two I believe we all expected to at least see contributions from.

I could probably toss in Rodolfo Castro, but the Pirates have already moved on from him so no use in kicking the dead.

As an overall team, most of the players who fell out of favor found their way off the roster and did little damage to the club on their way out. Not much was expected of the Underwood, Crowe, DeJong, types and for the most part you can expect rookies to rookie.

All that said, there were very few youngsters who really jumped off the page too. Carmen Mlodzinski, and Jared Triolo probably represent the couple who looked the most ready to contribute, with some promising efforts from others too of course.

3. Shakeups in Hitting Instruction

News broke shortly after the conclusion of Sunday’s final game of the season that the Pirates were making changes to their hitting instruction hierarchy. Jon Nunnally from AA Altoona and Ruben Gotay from High A Greensboro were both dismissed.

Now, gut reaction on this subject is 99% about Jon Nunnally and just about equally negative. Before I begin, I’ve been a big fan of Nunnally, not based on my own experience although I’ve talked to the man a couple times, but from the players he’s coached who largely have glowed about him.

And before we go any farther, let’s also be very honest about something, almost none of you have heard of Ruben Gotay, and had the story about Jon Nunnally helping Hayes not come to light, most of you wouldn’t know him either.

I don’t say that to chastise you for being uninformed, I say it because in the greater scheme of things, these moves aren’t what you’d consider seismic.

Alex Stumpf over at DK Pittsburgh Sports reports “Nunnally was linked to Ke’Bryan Hayes in August for some work he did before a Hayes hot stretch, but I’ve heard afterwards that Nunnally’s influence was overstated and that the relationship had been just a handful of texts.”

Take from that what you like. This could be a player or the organization covering their tracks a bit, or it could be that someone was fed one side of the story initially and there was simply more, or in this case less, to it.

I also don’t think this, while keeping Andy Haines is going to go smoothly. You don’t need me to remind you of my feelings on him do you?

Now, one other angle here, and I’ll admit, it’s thin.

This team has major problems on boarding players from the minors to the majors. I’ve pointed this out, and many of you will boil it down to “they can’t develop”, which has merit, but bluntly most of us don’t know what happens really.

Bottom line, I have a hard time telling this team anyone in their development system is untouchable, if only because they aren’t developing many players who are.

Again, that doesn’t mean everyone they kept is great, or dropping these two is wise, it just means at least for me, knowing how to classify these moves is out of my depth.

4. Henry Back to Catching?

Hey, maybe.

When asked on 93.7 the Fan “We think that’s important, nothing has changed in our belief that he can do that. He’s got the smarts, the work ethic. He just needs training and reps. He’s got the chance to do that now.”

All that might very well be true, but if so, he certainly hasn’t shown it yet.

Injury got in the way this year and bluntly, so did his bat. The Pirates needed his bat worse than they needed to train him to be something they already saw they had in Endy Rodriguez.

This might be the eventual path, but Henry’s bat tells me it isn’t ultimately going to be enough to placate usage for him. If indeed this is what they want for Henry, we could see them ultimately hold him back in AAA to work on it as the primary starting catcher.

This could also just be lip service. The kid wants it, and the team isn’t interested in telling him no at the moment.

This could also be a mistake if ultimately the Pirates have to stick him somewhere else.

It’s going to be interesting to see how they play this, something tells me if it’s about placating the kid, Spring Training won’t be enough. If it’s about wanting to play both of these kids, something tells me one will still be far superior and the other will wind up starting elsewhere.

Maybe he winds up pushing Endy to another spot, maybe this is a waste of time, maybe they run this whole thing like a well oiled machine. I’ve just never seen this idea really work. I’ve seen two quality catchers, just never two you believed needed 550 games. Can’t wait to see how this will progress.

5. Important Dates

Free agency – 5 Days after the World Series

Options – Up to 5 Days after the World Series

60Day Remittals to the 40-man – Up to 5 Days after the World Series

Non-tender – Nov. 17

There are many many more of course, but these are the first ones up and the ones we’ll be writing about in the near term.

The season doesn’t end as much as it just turns to the next.

6. Bonus: Pirates Fest is Back!

That’s right, we all complained enough and the Pirates are bringing it back, this iteration will be at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center on January 6th.

Nothing to hate here, I know many of you wanted to see it again at PNC Park but for whatever reason the Pirates felt it needed to be moved.

Eighth Inning Rally Gives Pirates Victory in Final Game of 2023 (76-86)

10/1/23- By Michael Castrignano – @412DoublePlay on Twitter

Last game of the season and both teams were ready for the season to be over – though, arguably, for different reasons as the Bucs head into an October spent on the couch while the Marlins look forward to just the franchise’s fourth postseason appearance.

Andre Jackson started for the Bucs and had likely his strongest appearance of the season, working 4 scoreless innings of 1-hit ball, allowing 1 walk while striking out 2 batters. Osvaldo Bido followed him, retiring 6 of 7 batters faced, striking out 2 and allowing a single hit. Kyle Nicolas pitched a scoreless 7th, striking out 2 and allowing just 1 hit. Dauri Moreta took the 8th and struck out the side.

On the other end, Marlins starter Ryan Weathers – making just his second start for Miami following a mid-season trade from San Diego – shut down the Bucs bats for 6 innings, allowing just 2 hits and 2 walks while striking out 5. Huascar Brazoban struck out the side in the 7th, allowing a 2-out double to Nick Gonzales before Bryan Hoeing took over in the 8th.

Hoeing led off striking out Jason delay before Connor Joe slugged a double to left and Jared Triolo walked, setting the stage for Miguel Andujar and Jack Suwinski..

David Bednar took over in the 9th, pitching a 1-2-3 inning, securing his 39th save to raise the Jolly Roger one last time this year.

News & Notes

  • Former Pirates pitcher, 2-time World Series winner and 2010 Roberto Clemente Award winner, Tim Wakefield, passed away this morning at the age of 57 due to complications from brain cancer.
  • Bryan Reynolds and Ke’Bryan Hayes were both left out of the lineup for the final game of the season. Shelton advised before the game that he wanted them to have the day-off to “enjoy the day” heading to the off-season.
  • Liover Peguero tripled with 2 outs in the 2nd inning, which was the first triple of his MLB career.
  • Connor Joe tied the team lead for doubles this season with his 31st this year (tied with Reynolds and Hayes).
  • Bednar’s save ties him for the NL lead with Camillo Doval of the San Francisco Giants.
  • Heading into the off-season, Pirates have a number of decisions to make and will have much higher expectations going into 2024. And we’ll be here covering each and every game along the way, starting against these same Miami Marlins on the road on March 28th. See you next spring! Let’s Go Bucs!

Minor League News and Brews: Top Pirates Prospect Performances

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-si62g-14bb212

Craig sits down to talk about the Top Pirates Prospect performances at each level; from the FCL (Florida Complex League), all the way up to Indianapolis. 

Craig Toth covers the Pirates for Inside The Bucs Basement, and is a huge Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Fan; especially when it comes to the Farm System. Listen. Subscribe. Share. We are “For Fans, By Fans & All Pirates Talk.” THE Pirates Fan Minor League Podcast found EVERYWHERE podcasts can be found and always at BucsInTheBasement.com!

Hump Day Pirates Q&A

9-27-23 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on Twitter

Another awesome session, this one almost entirely driven on Twitter. Send me questions anytime you’d like during the week, I’ll always try to give you and your question an honest shake.

Question 1

Gary, who is the most likely middle infielder to be dealt this off season; with the return of Cruz next year they have more guys than spots. – Rob Zabowski

I could list off all the candidates here Rob, and you’d already know them all. I could make some guesses about which ones I think are more likely, and ultimately I will, but more importantly, let’s talk about how this process goes mentally.

You first have to look at “The Glut” and be sure it’s actually a glut as opposed to “Healthy Depth”. Oneil Cruz, Liover Peguero, Nick Gonzales, Jared Triolo, Alika Williams, Tucapita Marcano round out the upper level of competition, and they’re followed by Termarr Johnson, Dariel Lopez, Tsung-Che Cheng and I’ll leave it there. You or someone else might have some other names you believe in, but that’s plenty to illustrate my point.

First things first, You can’t purposefully hurt 2024.

Meaning, even if you ultimately think Peguero or Gonzales are going to get pushed by Termarr and Cheng, that can’t mean Peggy or Gonzo are expendable in 2024. You can certainly get there by the end of 2024, but you have to consider your depth, the actual belief that some of that next wave will not only reach the league next year but also with impact must also be in play.

For where the team is, I think they probably have to drop a level and move someone from that next tier as opposed to this one.

I listed a bunch of names for “right now” but let’s be real, Marcano and Williams should probably be depth. Peggy and Gonzales will probably fight it out for 2B. Triolo will likely bounce everywhere. I didn’t even mention Bae but he too will take some ABs there. And finally, Oneil Cruz is likely their best shot at “special” from this group, at least in the near term.

The loser of the Gonzales/Peggy competition will likely lose the role to their backup a time or two throughout the season, so I’d lean Termarr (big name, high rank, potential big return), or Gonzales if only because he too has pedigree.

Question 2

Triolo as the starter at 2B in 2024 has gotten legs on Twitter and some Pirates podcasts recently, but do you think the Pirates feel the same? Personally, I really like the idea, but just have the feeling they’d prefer to see one of Peguero/Gonzales/Bae there. – Nick Cammuso

I’d like to take this opportunity to just say, my experience with this team really doesn’t lead me to them “preferring to see” very much. They tend to really mean it when they start up a competition with a 16th rounder and a 2nd rounder, in their minds, this is an entirely even competition. They may have one ahead on the expectation list, but they’re more than happy to be proven wrong.

As I sit here Nick, I see the roster starting out with Cruz, Triolo, Bae and the winner of Gonzo or Peggy in Spring training, maybe all of them. Triolo’s ability to back up Hayes, 2B and 1B is going to ensure he’s a “starter” but more along the lines of what Josh Harrison was originally intended to be. And I think he’ll get plenty of at bats doing just that.

If I’m really honest, I think we’ll see 2B used as a pivot point all season and if I’m wrong, it’ll be because someone made it impossible to move them out of the lineup. Thing is, the roster doesn’t work as well if someone isn’t floating a lot.

If you really want to talk about what they like, perhaps pay close attention to how very good Triolo looks at 1B and the emphasis on drawing more power out of his frame. That’s more of a “like to see” than anything about 2B where they have actual competition. For instance, I could see a Carlos Santana/Brandon Belt type signed and Triolo slowly stealing the gig.

Question 3

I see some potential in Rivas but I might be biased because he’s Mexican.
What do you think? – Piratas Mexico

Your biases are your own my friend, if you think you have them, you probably do. That said, No, I don’t think there’s much there. He’s a terrific fielder, but that’s about it. Has some pop, but he’s just not consistent with it and against left handed pitching, it’s just not worth exploring anymore.

He’s never really hit for power meaningfully at any level, and without overtly slapping a kid in the face, I’ll simply say, I don’t see it.

I probably jumped on this train too early, I called his acquisition as a nothing burger, or the non-important part of the Hill/Choi deal from the jump, and at the very least, Rivas has done nothing to change my mind.

I think he’ll be removed from the 40-man at the end of the season with very little fan fare.

Question 4

I think the Pirates spent $30.4 million last year on FAs to add to the team. I expect this year that number will be higher since their stated goal is to make the playoffs, but what do you think it will be (ballpark ofc) and what do you think it needs to be to achieve their goal? – Pitt_Panther_

And you could probably add in even more with Joe, and Choi deals. The Pirates payroll probably doesn’t need to go up much to improve, but I think their shopping list is rather expensive. As I’ve said often enough to mumble to myself while grabbing a beer out of the fridge, they need a first baseman and 2 starters minimally. They can get that filled fairly well for 35-40 million and I think they’ll do that.

Probably should assume a Keller extension will come, maybe into the season a bit like most of their other extensions have been. But that won’t raise the payroll in 2024 much I’d imagine.

I see no reason anywhere from 35-50 wouldn’t be budgeted in. Doesn’t mean I’d bet on it but I see no reason why that isn’t doable.

I will say, if they were to trade for a starter, good chance that comes back with payroll, but wouldn’t go into the FA pool costs, so I hesitate to say “spend XX amount or you don’t care!!” but that certainly won’t stop others from doing the same.

Question 5

Do you think Bailey Falter is on the active roster come next season? – Zach Williams

Zach, I can’t even tell you he’ll be on the 40-man. Bailey has no MiLB options remaining, so either he makes the team or he gets DFA’d. Maybe he clears and sticks for depth, maybe he makes the bullpen mix, but bottom line, if he doesn’t look like one of their best 13 pitchers, he likely is waived. And, he’ll be in this territory all year long.

Now, if Bailey Falter makes the team in the rotation out of Spring, they’ve either suffered a ton of injuries, or they didn’t go get help in the first place.

I do like some things I’ve seen from Falter, but you can’t enter a season in which you aimed for a playoff berth with what has essentially been a AAAA pitcher in your rotation.

Question 6

With all the middle infield prospects the Pirates have up or waiting in the wings do you any outfielders with some potential in the next couple of years to make the jump. – Mr. Derf

I feel right now they have Reynolds, Bae, Suwinski, Henry, Joe, Palacios and I suppose Andujar all capable of MLB level production. Beyond that, Canaan Smith-Njigba had a legitimately good season in AAA, but that’s a lot to jump.

Being completely real, that’s where I am, I need someone to look markedly better than 4 of those 7 I mentioned, specifically with the bat.

You want some flyers? Matt Gorski, Joe Perez, both probably have a shot. Beyond that, you probably go to the Lonnie White Jr. or Shalin Polanco level.

Question 7

Will GMBC spend more or less than $25M on pitching in off season ? – Douglas Smith

I’m sure you mean new money, cause if not the answer is of course.

They need 2 true starters, and it’s hard for me to see that without 25-30 million. Right now Doug, I’d say yes, because it’s what they should do. That in no way is predictive.

Question 8

How important is it to get Keller to his goal of 200 innings pitched this season? – James Littleton

If there were questions about his health, not at all. If there aren’t questions about his health, it means quite a bit to the player himself.

Say what you want about Mitch, but he is keenly aware of what makes greatness in this sport. Take a quick look at the record books for most 200IP+ seasons in baseball history and it’s a who’s who. The first 5 are Don Sutton (20), Phil Niekro (19), Greg Maddux (18), Walter Johnson (18) and Gaylord Perry (17). Keller set his sights on MLB royalty production this year, and given health and opportunity, a team should never stand in the way of a player who has those types of things in reach.

Again, you can’t risk his health to do it, but if it’s there, hell, let him try. He’s already borderline laid down the best Pirates starting pitching effort in a decade.

Does is matter? Well, if I were heading into arbitration and a likely extension conversation I think I’d want that nice round number to hang on my wall.

Question 9

Can Suwinski play 1st base? Chances of shifting Cruz to the outfield? Or am I just nuts in thinking both would be better at those positions? – Bernard Resnik

Maybe Jack can, maybe he can’t, but I don’t get the impression the Pirates would even entertain this. Despite the running narrative, the team is very happy with his performance in the outfield.

As for Cruz, well, here’s what I wrote Monday on this…

“Oneil Cruz will play SS agian, At least this will be the plan. They won’t go into this blind, he’ll either wind up playing Winter Ball, or at the very least, the club will closely monitor his continued rehab.

In other words, the concern about his ability to bounce back from this injury is well founded but two things happened during his recovery. 1, nobody stepped up and took short stop while he was gone, and 2, moving him around would be no more pleasant than what we’re trying to solve.”

Bottom line, fans want to move Oneil Cruz, the team, not so much. In fact, I’m not even sure what problem you’re trying to solve at this point.

When trying to win, it tends to be a poor idea to create issues where they don’t exist or to create an issue trying to solve another.

Decisions Concerning The Pirates Everyday Players

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-ybdmd-14b6012

Craig and Chris discuss how the Pirates should make their decisions concerning which players are in the lineup for 2024 and beyond; based off of some comments that Ben Cherington made on his most recent radio show. Plus, there was a certain team in the early 2010’s that Chris believes the Pirates should emulate, and it’s not who you think it is. 

Brought to you by ShopYinzz.com! Craig Toth covers the Pirates for Inside The Bucs Basement, and joins his buddy Chris at a 9-foot homemade oak bar to talk Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball. Listen. Subscribe. Share. We are “For Fans, By Fans & All Pirates Talk.” THE Pirates Fan Podcast found EVERYWHERE podcasts can be found and always at BucsInTheBasement.com!

 

Five Pirates Thoughts at Five – Yes, it’s a Losing Season…

9-25-23 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on Twitter

The Pirates will finish the season with a losing record, just clinched that yesterday with their loss to the Reds. That said, the Pirates have done some excellent work in the second half of the season, much of it by guys who matter too.

1. Welcome Back Nick Gonzales

Since being sent to AAA Indianapolis, Nick has simply destroyed the baseball. In 181 at bats he’s hit 8 homeruns, driven in 22 runs, hit .314 and slugged .585, and even that troublesome strikeout rate, down to 23.8%.

Point is, he earned this, and I hope they give him a chance to stay hot. I can’t begin to guess as to whom they’ll move out. could be Williams, could be some reliever or starter even that they are done pumping out there.

It’s not going to be easy to use all these guys, I really do hope you know that and are ready for some tough moves in the coming years.

I love this stuff! All this following prospects through the system, and now my goodness you get to start seeing them actually make it and fight each other for opportunity. It’s really what it’s all about.

2. Players Want to Win, and Here

Early on this season, Mitch Keller talked about how important it was to him to get to 200 innings, 200 strikeouts and 30 starts, and here at the end of the season, he’s right on the verge of hitting the innings mark.

This stuff if you look on the surface it could be seen as selfish, or with an eye toward his contract or arbitration negotiations, but in this case, Mitch’s reason kinda blew me away. Mitch wanted to hit those marks, because he knows when the Pirates get to the playoffs, he will need to be stretched out like this and strong too.

These things don’t always matter, I mean Quinn Priester set his goal at being the NL Rookie of the Year, but Mitch, his goal had a chance of happening.

We all get tired of thinking about the future, or wishing next year would be the year. Well, these players, they’re all thinking like that, and they’re all planning on it starting next year.

They don’t feel abandoned, they feel empowered, hell they feel responsible for making it happen.

I don’t know that this is different than previous teams, I’m sure most players believe they can get better and ultimately get great. For some reason though, it strikes me that these players are nowhere near as terrified they won’t get where they’re going as most of us are.

This hasn’t always been the case in Pittsburgh, but right now, it feels like we have a bunch of players who want to be really good, think they can be, and more than that, believe they can do that right here.

These aren’t dumb kids. They all have representation, smart representation. But right now, they at least have most of them believing the story. This group, young and old-er, see winning, here, both possible, and likely enough that they need to prepare themselves for that eventuality.

3. Demotion or IL Right Now can be Deceiving

Most of you probably already realize this, but I figured this is as good a place as any to make sure. When guys get sent down or to the IL right now, chances are most of the time the team is just ok with them getting no more at bats, or throwing another inning in 2023.

All I’m saying is maybe don’t judge every roster move at this point the way you normally would during the bulk of the season. Some of this is just paper at this point, trying like hell to get the innings they need covered from someone.

Some of it will be early 40-man housecleaning too, but I don’t think we’ll see much more of that than we’ve already seen.

4. Oneil Cruz Will Play SS Again

At least this will be the plan. They won’t go into this blind, he’ll either wind up playing Winter Ball, or at the very least, the club will closely monitor his continued rehab.

In other words, the concern about his ability to bounce back from this injury is well founded but two things happened during his recovery. 1, nobody stepped up and took short stop while he was gone, and 2, moving him around would be no more pleasant than what we’re trying to solve.

Alika Williams can certainly field the position, best they’ve got honestly, but the bat isn’t going to push anyone, not yet anyway. Peguero has hit some, nice power, contact leaves some desire, and he’s pretty much what we’ve seen, capable of the spectacular, predictable with the everyday play escaping him from time to time.

Cruz is that way too, but he’s already proven his bat must be in this lineup. I just don’t think anyone has given a real reason aside from believing he’s an answer at another position, but even then, I’m right back to there’s no sure fire superstar waiting to take over SS.

5. Dragging Less Anchors

Most of the players we watch next season should come from a mix of talents the Pirates truly expect to help. Not guys they “want to get eyes on”, not guys “we need to see more from” but guys who are supposed to be capable right now of doing positive things for the club.

Regardless of the quality of the free agents they sign next year, this will be the bare minimum. All 26 members of the opening day roster, you should believe are at the very least MLB players.

If not, they are not taking their goal of the Playoffs seriously.

If you don’t feel that 8-10 players on their 40-man could come up and actually contribute as the year plays out, they probably didn’t bring in enough and didn’t take this effort seriously.

We can bounce around names, and hope this guy or that guy turn out, but bottom line, if you want to aim at the playoffs, you need 10 games better minimum, and that takes higher quality depth.

Don’t settle for less. They set the target now, hold them to it.

Priester Posts Quality Start But Pirates Drop Finale 4-2 (74-82)

9/24/23- By Michael Castrignano – @412DoublePlay on Twitter

The late night excitement from the comeback win was still palpable early on in the game today as Quinn Priester looked to keep the momentum going against southpaw Brandon Williamson. It was a bit of a pitching duel early on today as these two combined to allow just 6 baserunners and only 1 hit through the first four innings.

Bucs bats woke up in the 5th inning as Jack Suwinski led off with a 2-1 middle-middle cutter that he drove over the wall in right center. After a Liover Peguero lineout to center, Henry Davis doubled to left center and Jason Delay singled through the middle to score another run.

Priester managed to no-hit the Reds through 5 but Jonathan India led off the 6th inning with a single to left before TJ Friedl hammered a slider into the seats to knot the game up at 2-all.

Reds kept it going in the 7th inning against Jose Hernandez as India doubled to left with 2 outs and Friedl blooped a single to shallow left to put Cincinnati up by a run. Team added on in the 8th off a Christian Encarnacion-Strand home run off a hanging changeup by reliever Andre Jackson.

News & Notes

  • Joey Votto received a lengthy standing ovation before his 2nd inning at-bat in what may be his last home game as a member of the Reds.
  • Suwinski’s home run was just his 2nd this season against a left-handed pitcher over 116 plate appearances.
  • Bryan Reynolds extended his on-base streak to 23 games with a 5th inning walk.
  • Henry Davis hit two doubles for his first multi-hit game since his return from the injured list.
  • Jared Triolo reached base three more times today, totalling 11 times over the weekend series.
  • The loss secures the Pirates 5th straight losing season and 27th in the last 31 seasons.
  • After an off-day tomorrow, Pirates head east to face cross-state rival Philadelphia Phillies on Tuesday. The Phillies are on the verge of clinching their second straight wild card berth in this series. First pitch scheduled for 6:40PM. Let’s Go Bucs!

Derek Shelton Deserves Criticism and Praise for 2023

9-24-23 – By Gary Morgan – @garymo2007 on Twitter

Nuance and social media have come to not often enjoy each other’s company. Everything tends to boil down to the harshest of outcomes. Fire Him! Extend Him! You know what I mean.

Vote for the wrong person you’re either a Nazi or a Communist. Like the wrong chicken sandwich and you have no taste buds.

Point out a positive aspect on a coach or coaching staff that most have long since decided weren’t good and you’re a bootlicker or blind, or simply thinking that one positive thing must mean you have no negative feelings about them at all right? Them’s the rules out there I believe.

Well, never let it be said I’m aiming for popularity.

The Pirates 2023 coaching staff has done some good things to go along with the bad. So what I want to do today is go through the good and the bad of Derek Shelton. I’ll still wind up thinking moving on from some of these coaches would be wise, but by looking at the good and bad, at least I won’t be stuck solely dwelling on what I see wrong.

Derek Shelton

The Good Stuff
The Locker Room Loves Him – Hey, it’s not the most important thing but when it’s a problem it never stays hidden. Talking to guys, you can tell when a dude is trying to not say something vs when they genuinely just let it fly. Ask any player you run into if they like playing for Derek Shelton and it’s hard to get them to stop telling you how great he is to work with. Despite my personal feelings that an upgrade at manager would help this team, I can honestly say a move would be taken poorly in that room.

The Players Play Hard & Never Quit – This isn’t always easy to achieve. I could be talking about an incredible 9 run comeback win, but in many ways, I’m more impressed by how he got kids to give everything they have play after play while simultaneously getting a crotchety old bastard like Rich Hill to pitch deeper than he had in years, and wear being an example to younger guys about not only wanting the ball, but demanding it. To get a 37 year old Carlos Santana to anchor his lineup, play every day, sacrifice his body, play the best defense of his life at first base and leave nothing in the tank. He even got a 20 year age gap to not only learn to ignore the outbursts of a Rich Hill, but appreciate them as “competitiveness” by accepting and supporting all the different ways those kids themselves like to show the same trait.

When He’s Sold on a Guy, They’re Set it and Forget it – Derek’s lineups have been a constant source of frustration, and in the negatives, I’ll mention that aspect, but right here, I have to acknowledge, when he is satisfied he’s found a spot for a guy, they rarely move. Reynolds, Hayes, Cutch, Santana, for the most part, they all stayed put. Injuries and trades forced moves, but even then, there is little movement with who is available. As this team evolves, it feels like we’ll see more consistent lineups, he just needs to truly believe in the everyday abilities of more guys than he currently does.

He’s Managed an Underwhelming Pitching Staff Well – Almost from the very beginning of the season Derek Shelton had 200+ innings taken out of his quiver. Like him or don’t, JT Brubaker ate innings, and coupled with Vinny and Mike Burrows, that’s a lot of counted on innings to cover. Now add in Luis Ortiz and Roansy Contreras backsliding to the point the team decided to go 2/3 bullpen. I know he makes choice that set you off every now and again, but he didn’t just guide them through it to run out the string, he guided them through it and the team excelled relative to the roster’s on paper appearance.

The Bad Stuff
Over Patient – Only on occasion. This isn’t even just a Derek Shelton thing, most managers have guys that for whatever reason they just do or don’t believe in. Hurdle had Sean Rodriguez and Erik Gonzalez. Shelton has had his share too, for instance, it’s been statistically proven out that defensively speaking, Jason Delay is only marginally less back there, but was at least positively contributing with the stick sometimes. But Austin Hedges was his guy, they believed in him, and what he did and quite frankly he held on too long to the frequency he was used. You can think of others, some like Josh Van Meter I’d honestly assign more to the number of at bats Shelton was directed to ensure he received by Cherington, but even so, it didn’t endear anyone to him did it.

Prospect On Boarding – This might be more organizational, but I have to go with the fall guy here. Almost every prospect that has made the jump has struggled. Carmen Mlodzinski maybe being the lone exception. Part of this is due to his reluctance to introduce them. This isn’t for everyone, but can you say he’s used Canaan Smith-Njigba when he’s been called up? Enough to actually show what he can do? Should it feel like Joshua Palacios (as good as he’s been) was given more leash? Maybe, but maybe not too. I don’t have to have a solution to recognize that a team dependent on kids driving the improvement has to get better at on boarding kids.

Messy Pitching Moves – There are times when he uses guys in roles they simply don’t belong, and most of the time, I can easily excuse it. Last night for instance, Colin Selby pitched in the 8th up 4 runs after an epic comeback and promptly leaked away 2 runs. I saw fans angry he was in there, but Holderman is hurt, Carmen Mlodzinski was going to close this one out, Borucki had pitched in 3 straight games and a 4th is just unheard of, especially this late in the game. I mean at some point, a manager has little choice but to say hey kid, you’re here cause we think you’re good enough, go do your job. Sometimes though, I can’t. Holding on to the dream that a guy can do something while watching it rarely work out when you have options irritates me and I’m quite sure, you. How many games during that awful mid-year slump did Dauri Moreta sit there while DeJong and Underwood tried? Again, has to share the blame with the options provided, but sometimes, it felt stubborn to me.

Conclusion

I’ve probably been a bit hard on Shelton through the years, and I still can’t shake before this whole thing plays out they’ll need a different type of coach to kick it over the edge (if they ever actually get that talented), but overall, for a young team, I think he’s done well to get through 4 years and have an almost unanimously positive room.

People follow leaders with bad ideas, that’s a fact. They get caught up in an idea or a mantra and before you know it you’re there, in it, believing what they’re preaching, backing their movement if you will. So immediately, the locker room liking him or playing hard for him has every chance of being wrong even if truly and honestly passionate at the moment.

What I can say is this.

Derek Shelton was brought here to do a sure fire hard thing to do. Shepherd the dismantling of an already mediocre team, help sift out what was worth keeping from that group, and manage to keep them happy, hungry and forward thinking while the walls melted around them.

Every year they’ve added players to that list of guys, looking forward, happy, hungry, and it’s culminated in now a roster full, or at least close to a roster full.

Now, I may not have liked every decision on the way here, in fact, I definitely didn’t, but it’s pretty clear that to this point Shelton has at the very least met the expectations of his boss. They didn’t expect him to be in the playoffs at this point, but they have to be pleased with how late in the season (September 23rd) they were finally eliminated.

I feel pretty good saying I think he deserves a chance to win with what he helped build.